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STRATEGY | Collaboration is the New Competition. w/ Priscilla McKinney
Prepare to rethink your approach to business growth as we welcome the dynamic Priscilla McKinney, CEO of Little Bird Marketing and author of "Collaboration is the New Competition." Available on Amazon here. Priscilla brings a wealth of experience shaped by her astonishing journey across three countries and 33 moves. Discover how these experiences have crafted her unique perspective on adaptability and the critical role of collaboration in navigating the modern business landscape. As digital noise rises, she shares her insights on how businesses can carve out space and thrive through strategic partnerships.
We explore collaboration's many forms, from teamwork within organizations to alliances with external partners. Priscilla emphasizes the essential elements of successful collaborations: transparency, communication, and mutual benefit. Whether you're aiming to boost your career or your business's competitive edge, collaboration is a powerful tool. Priscilla provides a straightforward framework to guide these efforts, highlighting the importance of being clear about goals and what each party stands to gain. This episode is packed with practical strategies to help you leverage partnerships and stand out in a crowded market.
The conversation culminates in an examination of strategic collaboration as an art form. Priscilla outlines how to create powerful, mutually beneficial relationships through thoughtful networking, whether in podcasting, academia, or business. The discussion underscores the significance of approaching potential partners with clear requests and ensuring all parties are committed to mutual success. By adopting a mindset of strategic collaboration, listeners can unlock new pathways to success and growth. Join us to gain valuable insights from Priscilla McKinney on how to foster professional relationships that propel you forward.
Connect with Priscilla:
Website: https://littlebirdmarketing.com/
LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/priscillamckinney/
X Handle: https://twitter.com/littlebirdmomma
https://priscillamckinney.com
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Business Owners Radio is a podcast that brings you insights, inspiration, and actionable advice from successful entrepreneurs and business experts. Hosted by Shye Gilad and Craig Moen, our show aims to help you grow your business and achieve your goals. Join us every week for new episodes packed with valuable tips and resources.
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And now Taking Care of Business, your hosts Craig Moen and Shai Gilad.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Business Owners Radio, episode 247. Our guest today is Priscilla McKinney, ceo with a call sign of Mama Bird at Little Bird Marketing. She is the celebrated author of the new book Collaboration is the New Competition, while the future of work rewards a cross-pollinating hive mind and how not to get left behind. Good morning, priscilla. Welcome to Business Owners Radio.
Speaker 3:I am so excited to be on the show as a fellow podcaster. You guys put so much heart and soul into everything you do, and so, before we even start, I just want to tell your audience just to appreciate how much Craig and Shai do to make this happen all the time to bring valuable content. So just go ahead and stop and do them a favor and give them a great review Five stars. You know there's a lot of work that goes into this, but Craig Shai, thank you so much for having me on.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's so nice to have you on the show. This is going to be a great time and looking forward to it. And boy, there's so much content that I've read through that's just I'm not sure where to go first. But I really was curious. In part of the bio it says 33 houses, three countries, five states, four high schools. How'd you survive? How did this happen?
Speaker 3:I think the better question is how did my mom survive? Because I'm the fifth of five. So if you can imagine packing up houses that many times, then really you know there should be an invisible trophy of motherhood given to my mom right this moment.
Speaker 2:For sure, wow In the military side.
Speaker 3:No, my parents yeah, my parents were missionaries in Spain. They were there before, like in the early 60s, came back to the US in the 70s when I was born, and then we went back again and I was raised there and also went to boarding school in Germany for a little bit. So I've bounced around quite a bit.
Speaker 2:Moving is no problem for you.
Speaker 3:Moving is no problem for you no, which is so funny. The irony is is that you know we finally, after all of the places I've lived, we've moved to Kansas and I have been here now almost 21 years. So I have, if you think about the 33 houses. I have been in this one for 21 years, so that's a lot of moving beforehand. Now I'm very stationary.
Speaker 2:Very life-changing event. Yes, yes, that's incredible. Well, welcome to the show and thank you so much for being here. The topic is fantastic and we're looking forward to it, and we also understand the amount of effort that really goes into writing a book, and we have to ask what compelled you to take on this amazing challenge.
Speaker 3:That is a great question, kind of starting with the why even put your heart and soul into something like this? But I really knew I had to when I was getting so much feedback from people in my industry and I sit at the kind of the convergence of the marketing industry and the market research industry and I came on to the market research scene in about 2016. And within a few short years became a very prominent speaker, really was leading great conversations, bringing people together and collaborating, and people were scratching their heads saying, how did you just do that? And I thought, well, isn't this what everybody's doing? And I got so much feedback from people saying, no, this is not what everybody's doing. And I got so much feedback from people saying, no, this is not what everybody's doing. It just made so much sense to me and I reflected that there's really great books from great authors that you know.
Speaker 3:I'll call out one Ryan Holiday. You know I love, love, love. The Obstacle is the Way and when he tells you something, you go, oh yeah, I knew that. Like it's so duh, but it was so obvious, but really you didn't know it. You didn't know it until he said it and brought it to you in a way that where it really resonated with you and that was my experience there and I thought you know what if I could give that to someone else to say this mystery of what it is Priscilla is doing? She's doing this somehow, naturally, but break it down. How are you doing that? And so that's what I tried to do with my book is just pull the curtain back. Look, it's just a gal. She's at the helm and she's just doing what comes naturally to her, and giving people a little bit of a view into that, so that they could then experience some of those wins that I was getting.
Speaker 2:It's an amazing contribution because the topic being collaboration is really becoming to the forefront in the last couple decades and as we have more startups today than ever and major corporations going through major downswings, collaboration word comes in quite often. What are you seeing?
Speaker 3:Well, I think there's the bad news and the good news, and the bad news is you can't go it alone, and the good news is you can't go it alone, and I think that the reason why these conversations are coming to the forefront is that it is harder and harder to get traction. In a digital world and in a very noisy commercial world, the amount of information people are forced to digest on a daily basis is just excessive, and because of that, we have fewer and fewer receptors really for you know, marketing messages. And having said that, if you try and go and become one tiny thing, ding, ding in the note, you're never going to be heard. It's just too noisy. And so collaboration comes to the forefront as an opportunity to accelerate growth or to even get any growth whatsoever, because you need to make the noise bigger, you need to broaden the opportunity, you need to get more reach for your message if you are going to get anywhere at all, and so that's why, practically, the idea of collaboration comes up for other people. Unfortunately, it doesn't always work out.
Speaker 2:So are we talking about collaboration within a team? Are we talking collaboration at a multiple department level? Are we talking collaboration between organizations?
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, yes, I'd like to talk about it anywhere, anywhere that it fits, and really it's about just being mindful of what you're trying to do. Maybe you are trying to collaborate just for the promotion of your own career. Then find other people who are trying to advance their career and start collaborating with them in a unique way. Maybe they work with you, maybe they don't, maybe they're peers, maybe they aren't, maybe they're mentors, maybe they're a mentee. You know there's so many ways to do it. And then, yes, interdepartmentally, that can happen. But also, we're seeing really tremendous collabs happening on the big marketing space. I mean, you know a live concert being held inside of Fortnite. I mean, come on, look at Disney, look at Marvel, look at you know, there's collabs happening all around us. Some people are doing it very well and some people think they're doing collaboration, but they're not. And because they don't get their framework correct, things are going horribly wrong.
Speaker 4:Priscilla, it sounds like you're advocating for small and mid-sized businesses to really open their eyes and see this as an opportunity that maybe they're missing out on.
Speaker 3:I would 100% agree with that. I think they look at this and think, oh, collaboration, oh, of course they can do that because they're Paramount Plus. No, you can Mom and Pop brought in $250,000 last year. You can collaborate. You can find ways within your own small market to get a competitive advantage by collaborating with people who are really willing to follow the rules of collaboration and they have something. You know to win and lose, and you can do that in such a creative way and absolutely win your game. So you could be doing it for a very small time, a very small project, maybe something very small, local, or you can be doing it on the world stage. I would absolutely advocate for that.
Speaker 4:So what does that process look like? How does somebody go about identifying potential partners for collaborations and how do you know if it's going to be a good fit? Are there some ground rules around this or some way that we can understand where to start?
Speaker 3:Absolutely. In the book I outline my framework and it is so simple, Like I am not trying to be lofty and make this difficult and there aren't exact steps that work for every single thing. I do have a framework, though, to say a collaboration will not work if these three things are not present. So very easy. Number one everybody involved has to have something to lose and have something to gain. So think about that kind of collaboration you thought you were having in the fifth grade, Like, okay, now everybody just like started twitching.
Speaker 3:Remember the science project, the collab science project in the fifth grade We've all had these, right, when, oh, you're going to work together to get this project done and the A student is just like rolling their eyes like okay, great, so I'm going to do work for other people. And the C student is going sweet, cool, and the failing student is going awesome. This is the best thing that ever happened to me, right? Because not everybody in that collaboration has something to lose and something to gain. So therefore, that is not going to be a positive collaboration, right? So I use that as a great example because I think everybody can kind of resonate with that. But also in business, this is carried out well past fifth grade, where we get put on a committee. Anybody else get voluntold for stuff all the time.
Speaker 4:Oh for sure, Everybody's got their own version of that. We know that most entrepreneurs were somebody's employee at one time.
Speaker 3:Their own version of that, and we know that most entrepreneurs were somebody's employee at one time yes, exactly. And so I see that happening, where they're not following that first piece of the framework Everybody involved needs to have something to win and something to lose. And then the second one is that they have to be willing to show their cards. Now, this is where it gets interesting, because this is where it is different. For example, if I'm going to collaborate with maybe six other people in my industry and say, hey, maybe I'm going to get a group of women, say from Women in Research, together and I'm going to say, hey, let's collab. I really need to advance my career in this way. You tell me the way you want to advance your career, like everybody, tell us the truth, and then we'll help each other. Well, you need to get people together and they need to be able to show their cards. They can't go. Oh, no, I don't need anything, I'll just help you. Okay, that's not a collaboration. Okay, so politeness, throw it out the window.
Speaker 3:But then, when it comes to companies, we need to be able to tell the truth about what we're doing and put our cards on the table as well, and that is a little bit different, because that does not mean that we are giving away trade secrets. There is a way to collaborate, even with a competitor, where we can come to the table and lay the cards out for this collaboration and be very transparent and be vulnerable, but we're not putting our company at risk. And so we see that all the time. Do you think, like you know the big movie enterprises, that they go in and then tell each other all of the new plans they have for the next you know movie that's going to come out? No, they don't. They hold some things close to the vest, but for the sake of the collaboration, what is at stake in the collaboration? That needs to be put on the table.
Speaker 2:This intellectual properties and competitive advantage and sharing some capabilities that you may have or your organization may have or company may have. That's a sketchy area, so I'm glad that you have some guidelines and some rules that can be put in place so they understand where those boundaries are Absolutely.
Speaker 3:The more up the ladder that goes. That may involve legal things, you know that may better involve an NDA at the very least, but it may involve something more steep. But that kind of goes kind of for me looking down the road. Start with small ways we can build rapport and, you know, earn trust with people and see if they're good collaboration partners, and then of course it can scale up and scale up and there's more at risk. But really that cards on the table is really important and you need to know what cards belong on the table.
Speaker 2:This sounds like a development process also as far as building that relationship and trust. But you mentioned some of the legal sides. Are there legal documents that companies and businesses should consider when they're going into, perhaps, a relationship that requires some non-disclosure or so forth?
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, I am not the person to give legal advice, but I will advise people at the beginning. You know, even sometimes, when people start talking to me with ideas, I'm like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa hey, you're sharing too much. Like, go back, get an NDA from your legal department, come back and then let's talk. And I think that while it sounds in that moment that I'm only protecting them, I am also protecting myself in the long run.
Speaker 3:And so I think, being conscientious about the way that we think about people's IP and you know, we're just human so sometimes we get excited, we like a person, we start talking with them, we may start divulging, maybe too much, but listen, you have to have a framework so that you stop yourself and you say, okay, this is beyond the scope of just what somebody can just find out on the internet about us, our company or, like you said, a competitive landscape or differentiators.
Speaker 3:For me, it's a lot about process, like I can help someone and collaborate with them on a marketing campaign, but I certainly am not going to divulge all my vendors or my processes or all of my checklists or my Q&A standards and things like this, because this is how we do our business. So I think some people walk away and say they're not going to do collaboration because oh it's, you know, I got to do all this legal and I'm like, well, you only would be looking at these kinds of things when you're getting involved on a deeper and deeper level, only would be looking at these kinds of things when you're getting involved on a deeper and deeper level. And I really stress to people you can start small with collaboration and there are a lot of things that you could probably do without even an NDA.
Speaker 4:So can you give us some examples of that, because I'm curious about what we can do to maybe dip our toe in this, and how you think about aligning this with the goals that you have and who it is you're trying to attract, and where do you find the overlap that makes a good collaboration work?
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. I could give a lot of different examples. I'll give an example to, let's say, I just volunteered for the Insights Career Network, right? So they are a community online of people in the market, research world, insights who have lost their jobs, looking for jobs. So they came to me and they said hey, Priscilla, you know, would you please donate this much of your time and come in and teach our group about your social influence course, how you effectively teach cohorts to use LinkedIn to build social influence. This would help people who are in this job market situation.
Speaker 3:I'm like, sure, that sounds good. Hey, what I need is I need to be able to tell people about my book. This is like, hey, you need something. Sure, I need this. You know, can we do something? You know, that would at least give me two minutes to talk about my book. Oh, yeah, that sounds great. Oh, and, by the way, I'll give three of them away. Okay, great, but then wait, we don't need to stop there.
Speaker 3:What about bringing in an association who maybe has needs to meaningfully provide for the industry, right? And then they're trying to drive membership? Well, what if I brought that person in also and they could speak for two minutes about the association, how the association helps people. These people are out of a job right now, but they won't be eventually, and you could broker some goodwill there. So it's about not just coming into a situation and saying, oh well, let me get what I want or let me just volunteer. No, you can rightfully ask for something in exchange for doing good work for people, you know so.
Speaker 3:I would rather collaborate than just give away my knowledge for free, right? I was just asked to speak at the Insights Association for a chapter event in Vegas. They asked me to come and speak, and I was like that's great, but I also would need to promote my book. Can I do that? Oh, how can we do that? Well, I have no problem giving some books away. I have no problem giving one to every single person who comes to your event, but I do want to be able to showcase my thought leadership. But I'll give you this free speech. They're a nonprofit, you know. So I waive my speaking fee. But what do I need in exchange? Well then, we bring in maybe two other people who need it, or maybe I bring in a photographer who needs to have their work seen and would like to collaborate on this. So I just look at a particular situation and look for opportunities to collaborate instead of just making it kind of a tit-for-tat situation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I recall this playing out so well in a lot of the marketing activities between companies and sometimes with competitors, but many times with those who have something that is added value to something you're offering and sharing a marketing approach, sharing the costs, sharing some of the infrastructure requirements that maybe one company can't handle on their own, but with the right group of partners and collaborating for a marketing approach, it really works well and very, very powerful to be able to compete with some of the larger corporations out there.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. I literally just worked on one of these. So Shapiro and Raj, known as a leader in the insights world. I mean just absolutely you know aspirational brand. They worked with InnovateMR, my good friend, lisa Wilding Brown, that runs that they are actually recruit for surveys and they do data collection in the market research world and they actually brought to the table Ivy Exec, which is like a high-end recruiting company that really knows how to deliver very high-end business professionals into important surveys.
Speaker 3:So there are three people on. You know there's some overlap with what they do in the industry they serve. Instead of each one of them going out and doing a webinar about something in their expertise, I was able to bring them together and we made a much bigger marketing plan and marketing play by bringing a speaker from each one of their organizations in and making this a much more appealing and compelling webinar where everybody could get the benefit. And this is where I think small companies could do this to go up against the Goliaths in their industry. But also bringing three really strong, winning brands together is a very, very strong way to go to market.
Speaker 4:You know it's interesting. I can't help think about the very at once meta and also super obvious example we're all setting right now on this podcast, right? I mean, this is really a lot of what podcasting is about. It's bringing together different groups of people with interest to see how we can help each other.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. We're having a micro collaboration. Right now. You're giving me this access to this wonderful audience that you've created over many, many years. Why would you do that? Well, Priscilla, you better bring some value. You better bring something that is of value to our audience, as we're trying to serve them. Well then, I would like to have both of you on my podcast. Let's figure out what is the next step. How do we actually get a bigger win than just this moment? Right, and so you can have these micro collaborations? That doesn't mean now that you and I want to sign a contract, now we're going to be in partnership forever. That's not what that's about. It's about doing something small and building rapport, doing what you can for who you can, when you can, as long as you can, and then seeing how that sense of abundance really works for a greater win over time. And these things do grow on themselves. The exponential value of operating in this way in the business world is just amazing.
Speaker 4:You know, let's talk about that a little bit. Business world is just amazing. You know, let's talk about that a little bit. I know I'm cheating a little bit, because I know your background is in cultural anthropology, among other things, and I'm thinking about the different psychological principles at play in these kinds of collaborations that really make them valuable. You know some of the inner workings of what's happening here, right? So one thing that comes to mind is just reciprocity. So we invite you on the show you'd like to have us back on your show. That expands the pie for us. We get exposed to more people and you can see how that kind of thing continues.
Speaker 4:But this mindset, this can be really hard for people that aren't directly oriented to that. Right, that's why I'm referring to your background. It feels like these things come very natural to you as a marketer. And how do you help people get past the barrier of? Hey, you know I come from a place where things are siloed. I've had people steal important information from me or people try to co-opt some of my customers, and it makes me nervous. How do I know when to trust and what's your answer for folks in that space?
Speaker 3:Well, I would say don't trust it first. Let people build that rapport with you. Start with something very small, but I love what you're coming at from Shai, this idea of how can we use things that are natural to people, just principles that we know work consciously, subconsciously and I would say a really good example of it is the idea that, in general, people are rooting for you. Okay, there are evil people out there and they're real jerks that are out. You know pitch slapping you all the time on LinkedIn.
Speaker 4:I get that Set that aside for a minute. I really love that. Is that our new term for day Pitch slappings?
Speaker 3:Yes, you know, you know you've been pitch slapped on LinkedIn many times and you hate it. Nobody likes it, right? So I you know. And then you have people who say, oh well, I don't go on LinkedIn because people do that. I'm like, well, just go on LinkedIn and don't do that, like you'll stand out. It'll be amazing.
Speaker 3:But I think if you can just think about just how are the good parts of our humanity work, people in general want to help other people, right? You see this a lot in podcasting world, because how often do you ask someone, oh, would you like to, you know, give your expertise on my podcast? And they go no, everybody wants to do that, and of course, they're going to get something from it, right? No doubt, yeah. And even like, when you have someone who takes the stage, in general, you have everybody else at the conference rooting for them. Oh, let this be good. Oh, come on. They start to fumble and people are like, come on, come on, you can do it. So you want to kind of use some of those really basic good instincts, and one example that I give people all the time is that people think that collaboration is walking up to somebody and saying, oh, let's collaborate on something. How can you help me? Oh, my, like, that's way too much work for me to do. You need to be awake and alive to what you need and explain it to me in a very tangible way, right and succinct. So let me take an example. This will work for any kind of corporate environment, but right now I've got a 19 year old heading off to Mizzou, going to college, wants to be a surgeon and, of course, I teach social influence on LinkedIn. Well, you better believe my son is going to college being connected and networked with people, especially surgeons, in the field where he wants to go right. And I tell him all the time don't go up to a surgeon or somebody, ask somebody in some academia field or some medical research and say hi, can you help me? Like, don't give them that job, they're busy. But if you can come up and do all of the work and say I need this, is that something you could possibly give it? Like, what is a five minute or a 10 minute activity this person could do to help you? That you are very specific about, and if you have something to give back, then lead with that as well. Now, obviously, my son's in the position. He doesn't have much to give back at this point, but those of us in careers we do For example us as podcasters we can lead with.
Speaker 3:I'd love to have you on my podcast and let you amplify your message. This is what I need in exchange, right? And so what I think is that, for the sense of politeness, sometimes people don't tell people what they actually need. Like, for example, you know what I told you. I volunteered for this network and I could say, sure, I'll give your team, you know, half an hour, 45 minutes or whatever. Sure, I'll have my team promoted on you know, social, I'll give you, I'll give you, I'll give you. And then they say, okay, what can we do for you? Oh, you know, just whatever. No, tell them exactly what you need. You need to be awake and alive to what you need, because people can't help you if you are not helpable and they cannot collaborate with you if you don't know what collaboration would look like for you.
Speaker 4:So it sounds like what I'm hearing here is we need to be opportunistic, to recognize ways of collaboration, different people that we can collaborate with and, at the same time, be very deliberate, which means we need to know our goals, you know what are the objectives and how will this collaboration further that impact.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. And I think it's totally fair to say when someone asks you for a favor, well, could I get this in exchange? I'm not saying you insist on it, but when you say, oh yeah, and they would probably be happy to give it to you in exchange, that's what's crazy about it. But if you don't ask, you don't get. And when you don't set up these, basically, structures of equivalency or structures that are going to create success for more people, you end up just doing favors and that's not what you need to do.
Speaker 3:But let me come back real quick. We've kind of gone down a rabbit hole and let me just give you that my third framework of what collaboration, how it works, and this might help kind of tie these ideas in together. Number one I said everybody involved has to have something to lose and something to gain. And then, secondly, they have to be willing to show the appropriate cards on the table. They have to show their agenda right. But then, thirdly, they have to have a desire to win, and I don't mean just a desire to win for their goals, but for yours and everybody involved in the collaboration. I want to pick people to work with who have energy, drive, a desire to win like they're in it to win it. If they're not in it to win it for themselves, they are never going to work hard for my goals.
Speaker 3:And so, if you follow those three pieces of advice and that framework, you can ask yourself just very quickly when someone's asking you for a favor or you're entertaining a collab, just ask yourself those three questions, because those three things are going to set it up for success. And so, if someone asks you to do a favor, you might say yeah, but instead of doing you a favor, how about we collaborate? Let me just think for a minute. You're asking me to do X. What's something that you could do for me? And it's just an honest thinking out loud about this. We don't need to be altruistic. We don't need to be like, oh, I just serve everybody. No, we all have careers, we have goals, we have revenue that we need to hit. Why should we be ashamed of these things? Instead, we should be very clear with people about how we can help them and how they might help us, and then the collaboration can start.
Speaker 2:Well, Priscilla, thank you so much for being on our show today.
Speaker 3:I have had such a good time because I think you guys are in the thick of it. You know what it takes here, you know what's at stake, and it's nice talking with people who really know how to ask the right questions so that people can start thinking about business a little bit differently and we can seize these opportunities to do it differently.
Speaker 2:You've added so much to the conversation. We really appreciate your insights and expertise. Is there anything else you'd like to leave with our audience today?
Speaker 3:Well, I do like to lead with giving at Little Bird Marketing slash resources. We have so many freebies out there and we are just not a weird pitch slappy salesy organization, so feel free to download anything that would help you in your collaboration journey, in your marketing journey, in the way that you build your career. There's just a lot out there, even for writers and whatnot, so we'd love to have people check that out. Every October, we host Insights Marketing Day. So if you are interested in a different approach and a very helpful environment that helps you understand the tools of the trade and how to really be effective at marketing, we have that event at insightsmarketingdaycom that's in Chicago in October.
Speaker 3:It is such a dynamic day. It is just people who want to collaborate, want to take things a step further. So I would love, obviously, to see some of your guests there. I love, obviously, to see some of your guests there, and my Ponderance from the Perch podcast is always there for people to get some value in terms of marketing and market research. But if you're just sick and tired of being sick and tired of doing it the same old way and getting really awful results, if you are looking for a new partner that thinks differently in marketing. We would love to be considered and we're just right there at littlebirdmarketingcom.
Speaker 2:Joining Shai and I today has been Priscilla McKinney, CEO of Little Bird Marketing and author of the new book. Collaboration is the New Competition. You can learn more about Priscilla, as well as find links to her content and book all on our website at businessownersradiocom.
Speaker 1:Thank you for joining us on Business Owners Radio. We hope you enjoyed today's show. As always, you can read more about each episode, along with links and offers, in the show notes on our website, businessownersradiocom. We want to hear your feedback. Please leave comments on this show or suggestions for upcoming episodes. Tell your fellow business owners about the show and, of course, you would love the stars and comments on iTunes. Till next time, keep taking care of business.
